Reader Max expresses his concern about some young men riding motorcycles/dirt bikes too dangerously on the neighborhood streets. Here’s what he writes:
“I am a resident of West Philly and am writing to bring an issue in the open since I feel like I am not the only person concerned about this. There are groups of young men riding dirt bikes all around the neighborhoods (Baltimore to Market, 48th to 56th and beyond).
These people are riding very dangerously, they often run red lights, they run on one wheel, they are disturbingly loud, they ride with no helmet (so when they get injured who is paying for their hospital bills?). I see them often, too often, missing accidents by a hair, being this close to injuring by-passers. What worries me is that I have seen them riding past police cars and NOTHING was done by the police.
Is this more than what it seems? Is this an organized group or some kind of gang practice? I don’t know. I’ve tried to call 911 but they pass by quickly, so any 911 call is ineffective. What can be done about it? Are other residents concerned as well? Is it reasonable to expect a more prompt response from law enforcement?”
December 2nd, 2011 at 12:41 pm
They’ve been riding around Philly for many many years. They ride around like squirrels and eventually end up like them.
Cops can’t do much as their cruisers are no match for the agility of the atv/dirt bike. So don’t expect much help from them.
The saving grace is that they don’t come down into the bowl. Some dogs are NOT fond of them and WILL chase them. Mayhem…
December 2nd, 2011 at 12:59 pm
I share your concern, Max. About a year ago I was driving down Walnut around 43rd when a man on a dirt bike riding with his child (perhaps 5-6 yrs?), both with out helmets, cut us off just barely avoiding being crushed between a row of parked cars and our front end. I was shocked that someone would endanger their child like that. When I approached one of the UC ambassadors shortly after she said, “if that’s what he wants to do then let him do it.” Sure, ok, except it’s illegal and he he had he was violating all child safety laws that I can think of. Police inaction in my opinion is due to the fact that we have ‘bigger fish to fry’ in our particular area.
December 2nd, 2011 at 1:04 pm
What Edde said. Plus if the police chase after them the bikers will only drive more recklessly to escape and put more people in danger.
December 2nd, 2011 at 1:30 pm
man, some stories on this blog seem to attract alot of covert racists…
December 2nd, 2011 at 1:37 pm
I haven’t seen any indication that the dirt bikes, although noisy, are in violation of any laws, nor have I seen any evidence that they are more dangerous than people’s cars…
Is pursuing criminal charges really the solution here, in a city with an already overcrowded prison population that is primarily young men of color who have been incarcerated for nonviolent offenses? I’m definitely not interested in ruining anybody’s life on account of a nuisance or noise complaint. I agree with Amara that police intervention will cause more problems than it will solve.
December 2nd, 2011 at 2:02 pm
They are breaking the law and not only endangering themselves but people in other cars and people, including small children walking near them. It is the height of irresponsibility to excuse this behavior. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with personal responsibility and the public good. It’s only a non-violent offense until someone gets seriously injured or killed.
Dirk bikes cannot be ridden on public roads FYI, they lack the proper signalling lights (to communicate with other drivers) as well pollution and noise controls. I would also wonder how many of the people on this are licensed to drive a motorcycle, which would be another violation.
December 2nd, 2011 at 2:17 pm
A friend from the neighborhood once told me she checked with police about this issue and was told that they actually have a policy not to chase anyone on a dirt bike or ATV/four wheeler. The policy is because it creates more danger to other drivers and pedestrians to chase them, because they are driven so recklessly. It doesn’t solve the problem of them being driven dangerously in the first place, though. Maybe the person could be stopped and bike impounded once they’ve stopped driving. I don’t see it as a choice between incarceration or no enforcement at all.
December 2nd, 2011 at 2:19 pm
I don’t think anyone is excusing it just recognizing the difficulty of policing it. If you think people drive crazily on ATVs and dirt bikes now just wait until they’re being chased. I’ve heard talk about going after the retailers that sell non-street legal vehicles knowing full well that they’ll get driven on public streets but don’t really see how that could be effectively enforced either.
December 2nd, 2011 at 2:22 pm
Like you said James, they are non-violent misdemeanors, and I simply don’t think that’s a valuable or productive use of police time and public money. I know we both want a neighborhood that’s safe for all its residents 🙂
December 2nd, 2011 at 2:37 pm
with all the actual crimes in our neighborhood , this is your uproar? get a hobby. or try riding a dirtbike…they’re lotsa fun. 😉
December 2nd, 2011 at 3:01 pm
z, that’s actually not was I said. I said they are very shortly going to turn into dangerous situations and someone was going to be hurt or killed. This is exactly the type of thing cops are around for. I watched them cutoff and narrowly miss a driver. Someone could have easily been hurt, including the kid on the bike. Should they be chased at high speeds? No. Should someone look into who they are and cite them and hold them accountable? Hell yes. We may both want a safe neighborhood, but if you aren’t enforcing the law on something like this, it’s a sign you can do whatever you want without repercussion. I don’t think it’s a “if we enforce this, we can’t enforce big crimes” situation.
December 2nd, 2011 at 3:38 pm
These dirt bikers aren’t anywhere as dangerous as WestPhilly more frequent bicyclists who run through stops signs, ride on the sidewalks and on the wrong side of the road. Getting off a trolley in WPhilly can be an adventure!
But as I said before…I’ve lived with dirt bikers riding through my old neighborhood for many years and accept them as part of the urban diaspora that colors our daily life;)
Now if you want to eradicate danger, ban small dogs offleash at the Bowl-they are too unpredictable!!! 😉
December 2nd, 2011 at 3:39 pm
“look into who they are and cite them” How exactly? It’s not like these things have license plates or the people riding them have their name, address and SSN listed in big letters on the backs of their shirts. I can’t imagine any method to do this other than following the bikers which, again, would result in high speed dangerous for everyone chases. Not religious but some people need to learn the Serenity Prayer when living in the city…
December 2nd, 2011 at 3:43 pm
ENFORCE THE LAW ON THOSE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN “The neighborhoods (Baltimore to Market, 48th to 56th and beyond)”
Sometimes I punch litterbugs in the face to make sure they don’t think they can kill people in my neighborhood. It is a slippery slope, you know.
I wonder if these people are American citizens, which would be ANOTHER violation.
December 2nd, 2011 at 4:03 pm
Wow.. nice to see the comments getting totally out of line into personal attacks. Keep it classy!
December 2nd, 2011 at 4:08 pm
@James…I don’t think the serenity prayer was a personal attack-just an attempt at humor;)
The Serenity Prayer(in text)
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.
Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.
Amen.
December 2nd, 2011 at 4:10 pm
Edde, I was referring to the “uber-james” parody. I also know what the serenity prayer is.
December 2nd, 2011 at 4:17 pm
Yeah, you guys are right, we probably shouldn’t care about those kids.
December 2nd, 2011 at 5:47 pm
I don’t condone unsafe driving of anything (motorized or not), but let’s be reasonable. The biggest transportation danger for most people is being in a car accident, and fatalities are the most common when a car hits a cyclist or pedestrian. I don’t think a complaint of driving high-speed vehicles at dangerous speeds should descend into an anti-bicycle screed.
December 2nd, 2011 at 7:30 pm
@guy yeah, dirtbikes are lots of fun until say, you’re on a bicycle headed eastbound on Chestnut St and two ~12-14 year old boys pass you within inches on 4-wheelers going 50+mph, run a red light, narrowly avoiding being crushed by oncoming vehicles (which slammed on their brakes in the middle of a busy intersection).
This happened to me about 2 years ago.
December 3rd, 2011 at 1:54 am
I’m a born and raised transplanted San Diegan. Grew up on dirt bikes out in the desert my whole life. What they are doing within city limits is not only dangerous and inconsiderate but really doesnt make any sense to me. They are DIRT bikes. I bet not one of them has ever touched dirt..such a sad state of affairs.
Its going to get to the point where so many of them will end of road hamburger before the City will hopefully restrict them within city limits.
December 3rd, 2011 at 3:17 am
cool story bro. be concerned with rape and murder not bicycles and dirt bikes.
December 3rd, 2011 at 3:19 am
and armed robberies. aNd home invasions,and……….the list is thousands long but bicycles and dirtbikes should be at the end of that list. i didnt say they didnt make the list…. just pretty far down that list……
December 3rd, 2011 at 11:12 am
I’m female, actually. I’m sorry you don’t think the personal safety of people living in our neighborhood is important unless it involves violence or personal property.
December 3rd, 2011 at 1:53 pm
Ugh… GANG PRACTICE? Are you kidding me? No, it not a gang. Probably just reckless thrill-seekers.
The noise and recklessness makes me cringe every time I hear the sound of a dirt-bike’s engine. I hope no one gets hurt.
I think the way to stop people riding do recklessly is to make the streets a less-appealing place to ride, not criminal charges. Something like speed bumps (so they can’t do wheelies) or something like that…
December 3rd, 2011 at 6:17 pm
I’m more concerned at the cars that seem to have increased ‘California stops’ and refuse to yield for pedestrians. It’s always been bad, but I’m pretty sure no drivers actually make a complete stop at places like 45th and Larchwood anymore. Good luck if you happen to be a walker in the way of a right hand turn or someone coming off Baltimore Ave and Springfield. They’ll drive by you at the edge of your sneakers. Unlike the occasional dirtbike, these would be easy to catch and ticket, and a occasional random trap may deter this and not take up a lot of resources.
December 4th, 2011 at 2:38 pm
I agree that there are larger issues plaguing west philly, such as home invasion, rape, poverty, child abuse, domestic abuse, neglect, hunger, you name it. However, the subject of this thread is the ILLEGAL driving of ATV’s and dirt bikes on busy urban roads WITHOUT a license plate, insurance, turn signals, *insert necessary safety feature here*. If grown adults want to make stupid decisions, that’s OK with me, but it truly angered me when I nearly crashed my car into a recklessly driven dirt bike (not an ATV like I previously noted) with what appeared to be a SIX-YEAR-OLD CHILD riding on the lap of the driver. The harm reduction policy of avoiding a police chase makes some sense, and I do agree that there are larger problems, but I think it’s irresponsible to disregard these concerns as just another facet of West Philly’s “urban diaspora that colors our daily life”. WE DO need to make our community safe for all its members, including myself and the child whose physical safety was at risk.
December 4th, 2011 at 9:51 pm
well if you want to get deep with it, the youth need more to do. job opportunities, after school programs, mentor programs, parents that give a shit. law enforcement that doesnt rely on intimidation and violence and more so on respect and guidance. there are budget cuts and improper and immoral spending made by the mayor and those in council at city hall. These are the types of issues the occupy philly group is concerned about. if you want to make a real change how things are working in the city, get involved with the occupy movement.
lets build these kids a legal motocross park at the airport. or cobbs creek.
December 5th, 2011 at 10:12 am
@guy, that sounds all well and good, but if you do that, how will they get there? They’d have to illegally ride their bikes all the way to the airport or cobbs creek??
December 5th, 2011 at 11:22 am
I also agree that there are some bigger issues in West Philly than this; however, did anyone see them rip through red lights across 38th st during rush hour on Friday? Cars had to slam on their brakes and it’s amazing that there were no accidents or injuries because of it. Some of these riders are completely out of control and it’s just a matter of time before someone, either in a car or on an ATV/motorbike, get seriously hurt. It’s ridiculous and frustratingthat we can’t do anything about it.
December 5th, 2011 at 12:34 pm
It may sound bad, but maybe a few accidents will have to occur before something’s done about it.
December 5th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
Actually, a few fatal accidents have occured:
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=7650761
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=7303365
I seem to recall that several years ago trolleys were diverted at 40th street due to an ATV crash fatality around Baltimore and 40th or 41st, but I couldn’t locate any articles referring to the incident. Anyone remember that?
December 5th, 2011 at 4:29 pm
Police in Vietnam have adopted a novel method of using fishing nets stop illegal motorcycle racing. They throw the net at the back wheel tangling the rear wheel in the net, slowly and safely stopping the vehicle. This should also work with dirt bikes and possibly atvs. See the link below.
http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-bizarre/and-you-thought-speed-cameras-were-bad/19570.html
If you really want to stop them give it a try, just be prepared for a very unpleasant confrontation with the vehicles operator.
December 6th, 2011 at 2:16 am
you know nothing about motorcycles if you assume tangling up a rear wheel with netting will “safely and slowly stop the vehicle”
December 6th, 2011 at 11:31 am
man, this comment thread has it all!
To wit:
dirt bikes
cyclists
off-leash dogs
racism
littering
rape
robbery
bad parenting
poorly performing schools
religion
ineffective police
transplants
Occupy
corrupt politicians
gangs
California stops?! (I think ’round here it’s called the South Philly Slide:http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=South%20Philly%20Slide)
Now we just need someone to blame Penn and it will be a true West Philly conversation.
If I may, I’d like to throw in the Crust Punks and Clark Park Cowboys so we can hold a gladiator style battle royale with The Bowl as Colosseum.
December 6th, 2011 at 11:39 am
No disagreement in West Philly is complete without a mention of cats. Does this count? Are we finished here?
December 6th, 2011 at 12:34 pm
@ Katie per your comment below…
“and I do agree that there are larger problems, but I think it’s irresponsible to disregard these concerns as just another facet of West Philly’s “urban diaspora that colors our daily life”. WE DO need to make our community safe for all its members, including myself and the child whose physical safety was at risk.”
I am not disregarding concerns related to dirt bikes, I am prioritizing and contextualizing them relative to what statistically are the most pressing issues of safety in West Philly. In the West Philly that I live in, resources are limited and I’d rather have the police focus on random violent crimes, muggings and robberies; and not a bunch of reckless riders out for a joy ride.
If I had a axe to grind, I’d prefer the city to institute a cat license tax similar to the dog license tax. But since I don’t, I accept the unfairness of this within the dystopian experiment known as West Philadelphia…
December 6th, 2011 at 2:37 pm
….And scene.
December 6th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
Let’s remember that an ATV weighs between 400 and 600 pounds without a rider on it. One of those things can go up to 75 mph. Getting hit at by an ATV at top speed is equivalent to being struck by a 1-ton car going 20 mph–something that can seriously hurt or even kill a pedestrian.
There seems to be an uptick in on-road 4-wheeler riding in my neighborhood, and I’d like to see this problem be nipped in the bud (though I’m not sure exactly how) before the weather warms up again. Also, @guy, these aren’t “the youth” riding these things; they’re grown-ass men who should know better. “The youth” on my block– 4900 something-north-of-Baltimore– are tossing footballs on the street with their older siblings and learning to ride bikes with their neighbors. I’d hate to see them get hurt.
December 9th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
It’s a dirtbike. It’s not going to endanger any one inside a car. If they want to risk injury/ death that’s there personal choice. its not your job to worry about if someone is risking injury to themselves.
December 9th, 2011 at 3:39 pm
Ernie, have you ever been a pedestrian? I’m not worried about the personal safety of ATV drivers, the same way I’m not worried about the personal safety of the drivers who don’t stop at stop signs in our neighborhood. I’m worried about them hurting my children or me while we’re crossing the street.
December 9th, 2011 at 4:06 pm
@Rachel…I’ve been a pedestrian getting off the trolley and been hit by a bicyclist. This caused me to twist my ankle pretty badly and miss a day of work. I’m a regular bicylist and can vouch that incidents like this are a rarity but more prevalent than annoying bikers.
Regarding the bikes hitting you and your kids, yes that would be pretty awful. I’ve endured them for 5+ years as regulars in my old neighborhood. The bikes are loud enough that you will hear them from a distance, and should give you and your kids enough time to notice them. If you don’t, then chances are you won’t hear another vehicle approaching you in a similar situation.
@Kate Lets not pull a Michelle Bachmann here. None of these guys are going to pay $4000+ for an ATV that is capable of 75mph.
Lastly, I am not condoning what these bikers do, but I don’t like this thread making these annoying bikers into monsters they are not.
January 27th, 2012 at 2:08 pm
My boyfriend’s car was hit by a dirt bike rider on his driver’s door as he pulled out of his parking spot in West Philly. The dirt bike rider drove off, then ditched the bike and ran. My boyfriend called the police who came, tracked him to a local hospital and gave the dirtbike rider several tickes. But get this, NOW this uninsured/unlicensed rider is suing for over $50,000. They couldn’t get anything from our car insurance so now they’re going after him personally! I don’t know what’s going to happen…our car insurance co. says they will defend him, but this all just seems so unfair!!
February 26th, 2012 at 6:18 pm
grace ,
i call bull on this story.
May 1st, 2012 at 8:25 pm
These guys are the worst. They are unlicensed unstreet worthy vehicle. The drivers don’t wear helmets and have no regaurds for their own saftey let alon others. Not only do they drive doing wheelies at 60mph through the streets, but also they are gang-affiliated and carrying drugs. Because they know police wont chase them and they travel in packs and load the drugs on one bike so if on the off chance theyget chased the nondrug bikes can run diversion. What I’m wondering is seince they are not licenced and shouldn’t be on the road, if they blow through a redlight while I have a green and I happen to rail them in my car…. would I be liable? Hypothetically..
May 10th, 2012 at 7:36 am
I’ll just leave this here…
http://www.change.org/petitions/remove-illegal-atv-and-dirt-bikes-from-philadelphia
February 6th, 2014 at 3:07 pm
[deleted] Let us ride. If it was legal there wouldn’t be a problem